- white
- fashionable
- flamboyant
- Western
By depicting homosexuals in such a narrow way, we remain ignorant about the diversity among homosexuals. For instance, the documentary A Jihad For Love follows the lives of a number of gay and lesbian Muslims who live in countries where homosexuality can be punishable by death. I urge you to finish watching this film (now with subtitles!) and leave your comments on this post. What is your reaction to a Muslim man who also identifies himself as gay? How does it challenge your previous view of homosexuality?
A Jihad for Love
The filmmaker interviewed on The Hour
P.S. On a side note, here is a short animated film about homosexuality from another great documentary called For the Bible Tells me so about Western, Christian families who find out their sons/daughers are homosexual.
Homosexuality: Is it a Choice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anvlms-Z_u0
ReplyDeleteThought of this.
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ReplyDeleteIslam is a religion where gays are not accepted. Its hard to hear for some people but it's the truth. You can't follow a religion which says your way of life is the wrong way. Many muslims are raised to know being gay is wrong. It's a choice to be gay or not and its fine to be gay but to follow any religion who denies or despises your ways is not right. Especially the fact that you are afraid to talk about it with your muslim brothers, sisters, and family. Also in muslim countries to know that there is a death penalty for this and its not a quick death, your stoned to death. Here in Canada the muslims might be more westernized and accept that homosexuality is okay and its a personal choice however in many middle eastern countries do not have any tolerance for homosexuality. A Hadith by Sahih Bukhari says "The Prophet (may peace be upon him) cursed effeminate men; those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, "Turn them out of your houses." The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman". That's how Islam was a long time ago but its slowly becoming more leanient.
ReplyDeleteIslam teaches that homosexuality is wrong and that it should not be practiced. In Islam you can't consider yourself to be a Muslim if you are homosexual, you will be disowned by your family. Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) has written: "There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life." I personally am uncomfortable with the concept of homosexuality in Islam.
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ReplyDeleteIslam is a very rational and logical religion. If there is something forbidden it is because Allah (S.W.T) did it for our own good and to prevent us from going astray. Allah created us to test our imaan (faith) and see whether we will choose to follow him or the shai’tan (devil). Those who are less patient and have a weak imaan will give up faster and will follow the way of shai’tan. In this documentary, we see many individuals such as Muhsin Hendricks and Maryam call themselves Muslims when they do not even practice the religion correctly. They claim to love Allah (S.W.S) yet they disobey Allah and commit one of the gravest sins in Islam. When Muhsin says “...that somehow the Qur’an should be speaking about us, as well” it really does not make sense to me. First, he claims to be a believer than he says what the Quran should be stating or focusing more on. He is misinterpreting the Quran for his own desires. The Quran as a matter of fact does talk about homosexuals through the story of Lot and clearly justify why homosexuality is haram (forbidden). If someone is struggling with their sexuality and religion is a big factor for them than they should definitely seek help. I know that many individuals in the documentary claimed that they did do everything they possibly can to get rid of such feelings and thoughts but honestly, if they really tried to seek Allah’s help from the bottom of their hearts than they would not just give up so easily. In other words, if they truly had that intention to strengthen their imaan and to practice Islam the way that is implied in the Quran, than they would realize that they are putting their sinful desires before their religion and before Allah.
ReplyDeleteI am not homophobic, I do not hate homosexuals I do not care if these individuals choose to live their lives as homosexuals that is their choice but when it comes to Islam I do care. It is offensive to me because I feel like they are misrepresenting Islam. Why claim to be a Muslim when you do not even practice that religion properly? For me these individuals are the same as the crazy so called Muslims I see on the news all the time that bring Islam down by being violent and abusive to others. They both think they are Muslims and claim to be Muslims and follow the religion when really they need to read the Quran correctly and they should not only understand the text but try to understand the message behind it as well.
I’d just like to point out a couple things for reason’s sake.
ReplyDeleteTo say you’re not homophobic is fine. You might not feel you are.
But then you compared homosexual Muslims to murderous extremist fundamentalist sociopaths and called them “the same”.
That’s kind of inconvenient to your thesis.
On another note I think this man is an extremely religious person. Imagine his devotion to a religion that he knows, in some interpretations, condemns him to death.
The people in 'A Jihad For Love' tried so hard to play the lives of heterosexuals and could not do so. They knew the consequences of homosexuality in their religion but have accepted themselves. They leave judgement for Allah/God because they feel that he has made them this way and so they leave it up to him to get them out of it.
ReplyDeleteThis proves that homosexuals aren't sex crazy perverted people. They have souls and can be religious too. I had no idea that even the most religious people have issues with their sexuality. I thought sexuality as a whole was a topic that only non-religious people discussed. Imams and other religious leaders that are gay have the toughest struggles as they know Allah/God condemns what they are, but they cannot reject their sexual identities either. I cannot even imagine what they go through as many communities reject homosexuality and the punishment for it is death!
I don't think we have the right to act like Allah/God and judge them. It should be left for the Almighty to decide.
I felt very sad for the Muslim men who are homosexuals because they had to go through a lot of discrimination and a lot of pain. Their religion forbids them to be homosexuals but they cannot change what they are. The film actually made me think about the power that love can contain. Love is an emotion of strong affection and personal attachment that can cause people to go against their religion. Once a person falls in love with a person of the same sex and they get together, there is no escaping from being homosexual. Love is something that we cannot control over, as some people may say Love is blind.
ReplyDeleteWow.
ReplyDeleteI totally second Clarence's opinion here. What all of us here have got to understand is that being homosexual is not a choice. You would see that if you watched the second link. Scientifically, it is proven that sexual orientation is something an individual is born with. Faith is something a person has chosen. In my opinion, the people in the movie are some of the strongest people out there. To be true to a religion that demands their death takes extreme courage and devotion.
Also, Fatima, you said that you do not think that these people tried to get rid of their homosexuality:
"I know that many individuals in the documentary claimed that they did do everything they possibly can to get rid of such feelings and thoughts but honestly, if they really tried to seek Allah’s help from the bottom of their hearts than they would not just give up so easily. In other words, if they truly had that intention to strengthen their imaan and to practice Islam the way that is implied in the Quran, than they would realize that they are putting their sinful desires before their religion and before Allah."
Being homosexual is not a 'sinful desire'. And like the second link also showed, people who proclaimed that they went from being 'gay to straight' actually reverted back to their homosexual identity, because it is not possible to change who you are. Maybe it is possible to be suppressed by society and lie to yourself that you aren't homosexual anymore - so are we saying that our society should be such that we force people to live a lie because they are too afraid of the repercussions of the truth?
In my opinion, these people are not ‘claiming to be Muslims’ but are showing obedience to the best of their ability, and leaving the judgement to Allah. It is not valid to compare them to extremist terrorists who take lives in the name of religion. I salute these people for their determination.
I know this may be a little controversial; but here is my question to religious people:
If you were homosexual and your religion, whichever it may be, condemns homosexuality, would you give up your faith, or would you suppress your gender identity for the sake of your faith?
@Clarence, the reason why I compare those two together is because they both claim to be Muslims yet do not follow Islam properly, and I do not mean just little sins, we all are human and make mistakes I understand that but when it comes to things that are completely not accepted in the religion and yet you deny it and continue to do it and still call yourself a muslim-thats when I get offended, both people are in a way misrepresenting Islam and I want to make it clear that they are not considered to be Muslims. If you find them to be extremely religious than that is your opinion and I cannot really change that but from a Muslim’s perspective he is not a religious person at all but someone who is trying to cover up for his sins by acting religious.
ReplyDelete@Muskaan, With all due respect, I strongly disagree with your opinion. Although you can find yourself some sort of scientific evidence, I can do the same: http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf . Muskaan, scientist will always research and find new things that contradict one another, it is always changing...there are many things that we know and not know of. Even, after years and years of research, there will be always more knowledge to gain but we will never be able to gain enough. Faith is more than just a choice; it is a way of life. Muskaan, do you believe in God? If yes, then I can find you much evidence that proves God does not exist: http://www.citeulike.org/group/1014/article/1147948 . If you are the type of person who tries to find evidence in everything than you can choose not to believe in any religion or God that is your choice but I, regardless of all the scientific evidence, will keep my faith strong and will have to disagree with you. I can quote what the Quran states but then I am sure you will question that as well. I have seen these evidences and have researched as well but I have my reasons to why I believe it is not biological just like the way you have your reasons to believe why it might be/is biological. The comparison of homosexuals to terrorists is not based on the extent of their sinful actions but rather their misrepresentation and misinterpretation of Islam. To answer your question, if I was someone who was confused and struggling with my sexuality and if religion was something that was very important to me than I would go seek help and make sure that my confusion is cleared up.
Something I found on the internet that might interest you:
ReplyDelete"We as Muslims need to state unequivocally and unambiguously that homosexuality is a deviant behavior and that there is not even an iota of doubt that Islam condemns the behavior.
The most important thing for us as Muslims is that Islam is not our ethnicity, it is our religion which regulates our lives and from which we derive our values.
Even though our religion allows us latitude, more than most, to ponder and reconsider some issues, homosexuality is clearly and explicitly condemned by the Quran (7:80-83, 11:77-79), the Prophet, and his progeny.
When we have a conflict with the Quran, which is the word of God verbatim, we do not ask where the Quran went wrong but rather why are we, limited beings, in conflict with the wisdom of the absolute, God Almighty.
As Muslims we do not make up our religion, but we receive it and we obey it.
Thus stated, we need to clarify, that it does not mean that we hate the homosexual person but rather that we find the behavior abhorable. We want to help with sensitivity and care whoever has these tendencies, or practices such behavior. We can further point out the following:
God has created everything in pairs each endowed with physical and psychological characteristics to complement and complete one another. The Quran (4:1) indicates that human beings have been created from one living entity (nafs), which represents the origin of both the male and the female. The human species though has included male and female since its existence. The "mating" or "spousing" of male and female sexes is original in human nature and out of this instinctive relationship the human race develops, continues and spreads....."
"We, as Muslims, have benefit and blessings of divine guidance and wisdom. The Quran reminds us that Allah (SWT) will change the condition of the people only if they themselves put forth the effort (13:11). If the homosexuals can promote their wrong values with vigor and succeed, we have a duty and a responsibility to not only make an effort to arrest this trend, but also to invest our time, energy, and resources to promote the divine values with as much zeal." 5
Fatima
ReplyDeleteI still don't agree with the fact that the sins of murderers and the "sins" of homosexuals should be put under the same umbrella. The murder of innocents is a huge sin. But it is not and will never be comparable to one's sexual orientation. Wouldn’t you agree that Islamic terrorists misrepresent and interpret Islam MORE than homosexual Muslims?
Modernity has made the religious more moderate. A moral zeitgeist for reason and compassion for human beings has made draconian religious doctrine obsolete. People pick and choose scripture all the time. Lots of religious people have premarital sex, most Christians don't think disobedient children should be stoned, most Muslims don't believe that apostasy should be punished by death. A person's interpretation of a religion and the way they follow it is highly personal and in the end the only being that can cast judgement on that is God.
Also I'd like to point out that being gay is NOT a choice. The article you cited is on the "Christian Women for America" website.
These are the same people that don't believe evolution should be taught in school, rape victims not have the right to an abortion, and prayer in public schools.
Of COURSE they would publish an article on their website saying homosexuality is not a choice.
It is not a choice. One simply needs to look at the natural world to realize this. Homosexual behaviour in animals has long been documented, and because they lack the ability for higher forms of thought, it can be said that they have no choice in the matter.
Humans are essentially animals and the consensus on the scientific community is that sexuality is not a choice. I can't convince myself that I'm gay as much as a gay person can convince themselves they're straight. I will, for the rest of my life, be attracted to the opposite sex. I have identified with this and I feel that it is the most natural state of my sexuality. The same can be said for homosexuals. Sexuality is simply in our nature.
Also, science can never empirically disprove God. It can make it so that the existence of a providential entity that knows the daily routines of you and I highly unlikely, but it will never disprove that God does not exist.
Clarence
Fatima, I agree with Muskaan and Clarence for the part when you compared Muslim homosexuals with those extremists who for the sake of religion take lives of other people. In this matter, no Muslim homosexual takes lives of other people to follow their religion, and I am sure these homosexuals shown in the documentary "A Jihad for Love" want to follow Islam from the bottom of their hearts. However, the Quran does mention that Islam is against Allah's followers to be homosexual, and no one can change that fact, not even Muslim homosexuals themselves. Yes, they can say that we will leave the judgement on Allah, and He will decide what will happen in after life. There is no doubt in that, but everything mentioned in the Quran has it's reasoning!
ReplyDeleteThere is a reason why males and females were gifted with reproductive systems that perform different tasks. This is natural and it is helpful for the society because the more people we have in this world the more better it is for the future. With people of the same gender mating only they get pleasure out of it, the society has no benefit! Just like the way we cut trees to help us make paper with but cutting down trees decreases their population which worsens global warming! Just like people of the same gender mating will affect the population in the world.
If you're homosexual and follow the religion Islam it does not mean you're not a part of it but you have to understand what the religion is asking for you to follow!
And to answer Muskaan's question, yes, I will suppress my gender identity if I were homosexual and I were following Islam, or another religion if it condemned homosexuality. That is because in order to follow Islam properly I would want to work out on my sins that are huge (not praying, not following the shariyah law ~ islamic laws, being homosexual).
""Ah! Don't say you agree with me. When people agree with me I always feel that I must be wrong." Oscar wilde
ReplyDelete:P
Anber, I'd like to become aware of the fact that the world's population is absolutely fine. Estimates show that in forty years the world population will grow by another three billion. Global overpopulation is a real threat as the resources on this planet are limited. As it is the industrialized world uses 80 percent of the world’s resources and is host to only 20 percent of the total world population.
Trust me when I say less people procreating would not be a terrible thing to happen on this planet.
Also there are a lot of heterosexual partners that chose not to have kids. What should be said about them? Forced pregnancies to keep a status quo that would leech the world of its dwindling resources?
Ha...ha...ha... very funny Clarence
ReplyDeleteAlright well, I wont refuse to the fact that the world's population is fine, but when both males and females are given TWO DIFFERENT genitals, then there must be a reason, won't you say so? To produce babies!
I am well aware of there being a lot of heterosexual partners that chose not to have kids. They could have their reasons, over here, thought, I'm talking about a certain religion, Islam, that states for a male and female to mate to produce children. And well, if people are true followers of this religion then I don't see why they would not want to have children. There are many other religions in the world with different rules to follow, and I'm not saying anything against that, people can wish to do anything they want, but I follow the religion Islam, and know the rules about it. So, if I see a certain Muslim individual do something wrong, I would go about stopping them. :)
In my opinion the world that we live in is crazy. Muskaan said: Scientifically, it is proven that sexual orientation is something an individual is born with. Now taking this into consideration how can we honestly call ourselves compassionate or even human when we go ahead and stone a person to death because of the way he or she is born. That is truly madness to me. The person has no choice over the matter, and as seen in the movie, one of the homosexual males even tried marrying, but it didn't do him any good. At the end of the day he was still homosexual. He didn't seem to have the choice to be heterosexual. How can we not use or own logic and see that what we are doing isn't right. Homosexuality should not, under any circumstances, be discriminated against. There is no reason for us to hate something that somebody has no control over, and even if they did, what right do we have to discriminate against something like homosexuality. People should get into the habit of worrying over realistic problems. People need to simply mind their own business. If a man is happy being homosexual and is Muslim why should any human bother to tell him whats right and whats wrong. He probably knows the Qur'an well enough anyways. If anybody should deal with him, it should be your own god, or Allah, not you.
ReplyDeleteAlso in regards to religion, I believe that things have to change. In this world, nothing is permanent. Everything changes constantly, and is subject to decay. Everything is evolving. Unfortunately this includes us, the things around us, and even our ideas. Now religion is solely based on faith that rejects any type of change, and in the current society we live in, religion cannot exist without creating hate. This hate is conditioned excessively in religious families and innocent children, as a, result become adults who end up discriminatory against other people such as homosexuals. Now I am not saying that religion is a bad thing, I am simply saying that there are aspects of it that must evolve. Just because something is tradition, does not mean that we should continue doing it if it is creating hate among people. The problem I see with religion is that if continued a new generation of children who discriminate against homosexuality will be brought up in a world becoming more and more accepting of homosexuality. Ideals will conflict and unnecessary violence and hate will exist. If homosexuality is truly something one is born with we have no right to call it correct or incorrect.
ReplyDeleteHoly Moly! (or is is Moley?) That’s one awesome set of comments. Has anyone noticed some posts just have one set of people bickering back and forth which nobody else dares to interfere in xD ?
ReplyDeleteFirstly Clarence, I think you said something about the article that Fatima linked being from the Christian Women of America, but the paper actually says it’s from some group called ‘Concerned Women of America’. Just thought I would point that out.
So here we go…
Fatima, I didn’t read all 13 pages of that article, but the very second page states that “no single study can be regarded as definitive.” So your claim that this article ‘proves’ that homosexuality is a choice is not exactly true. Also, the article gives examples about a lot of people who kept jumping between gender identities. For such people, I’d say they’re not ‘straight’ AND ‘homosexual’ AND ‘bisexual’; they’re just curious.
Of course scientists will always contradict each other; they would have nothing left to do otherwise :P And a certain kind of faith may be a way of life, but it is still something you choose. Being Muslim, or Christian, or any other religion, does not prescribe that you should condemn the way another fellow Muslim or Christian lives their life. I couldn’t use the second link you provided because it just gives the abstract for an article, but it would not matter anyway since I’m not a strong believer in any God.
I would have actually liked if you did quote what the Quran states, and I hope you will do that if you reply. I wouldn’t question what religious teachings say; what would I get from that? From watching the movie and reading Anber’s comments, I think I gathered the essence of it anyway. If you were struggling with your sexuality and your religion conflicting Fatima, who would you seek help from? The only people who claim to be able to help are religious priests.
Here’s my take on those Christian priests in the earlier video who claimed that they could make a person straight. They psychologically brainwash you to instill in you the belief that being homosexual is a sin and that heterosexuality is God’s way. It is psychological – if you constantly tell yourself what you know is a lie, you will eventually believe it to be the truth. These priests are doing exactly that; conditioning homosexuals through what they consider to be damage control.
I can’t actually say anything about the second comment that you said you found on the internet, because you didn’t tell me where you got it from. But assuming that what you quoted represents your opinion:
ReplyDeleteI’d argue using Clarence’s excellent point that humans are essentially animals, and that since homosexual behaviour has been recorded in animals through history, that we can conclude that it is ‘natural’ and not ‘chosen’. But you would probably counteract that saying that according to religion, humans did not evolve from animals but were created, and hence cannot be compared. So let’s look at it from only a religious lens.
One line in that piece that you pasted says: “The Quran reminds us that Allah (SWT) will change the condition of the people only if they themselves put forth the effort (13:11).” I apologize if I do not have the right to interpret the writings in the Quran, but I would interpret it to mean that God will fix one’s problems and difficulties if the individual has the will power and tries to cope with and change their circumstances. I do not think that those lines can be applied to homosexuality, because how is an individual supposed to ‘put forth the effort’ to not be gay? That would be just about as easy as trying as hard as you can to not be straight!
Anber, you’re saying that people of the same gender mating would be only for pleasure and not for the good of society, but why does sex have anything to do with benefitting society? From what I’ve heard, I guess that is the same concept behind why Islam does not allow contraception. But if a girl does not want to get pregnant, how can one condemn that? To quote Clarence, “Modernity has made the religious more moderate”. I am not saying that one should brush off religious teachings entirely, but if like you said, the whole point is the betterment of society, then we have to be less rigid in how these ‘rules’ are interpreted and followed. I still maintain that homosexuality is not a choice. If religion does not evolve with the passage of time, the hate against homosexuality will keep brewing.
Muskaan, you pointed out a Surrah, I don't know which one it is but let me explain it to you. We have duas from the Quran for different problems individuals may encounter throughout their lifetime. Yes, being gay is something no one has control over, but if you know that is something wrong as it is written in the Quran then you know you have to do something about it. Basically, the surrah that you just posted states that an individual should take initiative towards themselves (even gay individuals) and only then will Allah change their condition. As we saw in "A Jihad for Love" there were many Muslims in it (either gay or lesbian) who left everything on Allah and his judgment which is the right thing but it's their responsibility to take some action towards them being gay. For example, praying, making duas, fasting, etc. In part one a male is shown and I think he does and has tried his level best to help himself become straight. That is exactly what the surrah you mentioned states, he tried and inshAllah Allah (s.w.t.) will help him because he took the time and initiative to find out why he's like that and what he can do to change it so he can follow Islam properly. Changing the way you feel is never in an individual's hand but in Allah's, if of course you're a Muslim. Miracles do happen :)
ReplyDeleteOh and by mentioning sex I was just saying that god has gifted males and females with different productive organs that play different roles for a reason. Yes, being homosexual is something that can't be changed by an individual, by God, yes it can be. People have a choice whether to follow their religion or be homosexual. Just because the world is becoming modern it does not mean that people should forget what's written in their religion and stop following it. Just like in Islam there can't be a such individual who is both homosexual and Muslim.
I hope I explained the surrah well :-o
Sorry, if I didn't
Amber I do not think that it is fair in any way that homosexuals should be forced to go against what they really are and try to change themselves simply because of a religion. You said: Just like in Islam there can't be a such individual who is both homosexual and Muslim. Now this frustrates me. Just consider this, a child who is born in a religious environment will be conditioned to believe in religion. By both his family, and his society, so by the time hes older religion is real and exists. Now as he gets older he realizes hes homosexual. How do you expect him to simply forget all the conditioning his family and society pushed upon just because of the way he is. To him religion is life, he can not just forget it. The society that has helped create the perspective of this child's world is now looking down upon him for something he has no control over. That does not make sense to me. If religion continues to discriminate from birth and create hardship among people who do not deserve it then it should be changed.
ReplyDeleteAnd in regards to the: Just because the world is becoming modern it does not mean that people should forget what's written in their religion and stop following it. Of course I partially agree but are you honestly going to tell me that you accept discrimination and even go as far as to support it because of something that is written in a book. If slavery was encouraged in my religion do you think I should honestly continue supporting it and conducting it. Obviously not. Peoples ideals are changing and have changed from what they used to be, now if you want to continue thinking with these ideals there is surly nothing wrong, for that is your choice. But when you are discriminating against certain people because of these ideals, well you've gotta stop, regardless of what your god says.
I have to admit my ignorance about religions, because before watching this documentary, I did not know that Muslim homosexuals would be stoned to death if their identities were exposed. Because I am not Muslim, I cannot really say that this... is right or wrong. But from a human perspective, I think that punishing them for something they did not choose to do is not reasonable. By now we pretty much know that being homosexual is not a choice, and frankly speaking, I think homosexual people did not do anything wrong to deserve to be treated the way they are being treated now in our society. They are just unlucky to be born that way and because homosexuals represent a minority in society, they don't really have a voice to speak up for themselves.
ReplyDeleteBecause Islam says being homosexual is a sin, gay or lesbian people are condemned to be sinners. In this regard, I think it is not fair for those people. I cannot say it is wrong, I just feel that it is unfair for those because they certainly don't want to be that way. They try every thing to be normal like other people but find it impossible because that's just the way they are. How can we, as human beings, punish them just because they are different, which they do not choose to be?
I was just amazed to see how determined and pious the people in the documentary were. Despite knowing that they could be punished to death, they risked their lives to practice Islam. Other Muslims may think that they are unashamed and disrespectful but to me, these people are pious and courageous. Forgive me if I offend anyone here, but that's how I think. They could have just quit or converted to other religions where homosexuality is not forbidden, or not as strict. But they refuse to do so and risk their lives practicing the religion. If I were them, I don't know if I could do the same.
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ReplyDeleteIn the Islamic religion, homosexuality is not allowed; in fact it is forbidden and extremely sinful. Again I am going to remind everyone that these are my not my rules, there simply the religion that as a Muslim I strive to follow upon. Personally just to clarify why the death sentence takes place is because many believe that if the person who has committed such a sin like that is put to death, that suffering in this life would be far more beneficial than the punishment in the hear after. Although personally, my beliefs on the matter is that if a Muslim woman or man feels that they are having homosexual thoughts and REALLY think it is wrong than they should be guided and seek help, and hope Allah guides them. Although what I noticed in the film was that people in the documentary who were homosexual were not looking to change themselves, but looking for a way around Islam to accept it. I know that there was a man who got married to get rid of his thoughts although still felt that he was homosexual, which again only God can understand what he was going through. Honestly speaking I’m the farthest thing from homophobic that is simply someone’s own personal sexual orientation. Although for religious reasons I don’t agree with it and I also do not feel that it is genetic. Personally I don’t know how someone who is homosexual feels and have NO RIGHT at all to judge them, I never have and never will. I am not made to discriminate against any of them; it’s simply their own will. I will be honest and say that it did hurt a little to see Muslim homosexual people only because I know that in my religion it is a huge sin and it made me feel sad because I don’t want to see any Muslim struggle. Perhaps they are happy to be homosexual, which is fine and if they are okay with it, it’s simply not my business. In Islam Allah has made a man for a woman and personally going against that is questioning his reasoning, which again is a different sin itself. A lot of this is contradicting and I understand that.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that was said in the video which really got to me was the scene about “komo looth”, which is the part in the Qur’an where homosexuality is mentioned and forbidden. The man who was homosexual had interoperated the meaning differently and the other religious scholar replied by saying that “it is not up to us to interoperate the Qur’an in the way we desire. Allah has sent us the Qur’an for a reason and it is also meant to be recited, understood, and applied correctly, anything else is a sin.
I can only imagine how frustrating it can be for a Muslim person to be struggling with their sexuality and it they do feel that it is wrong than they should accept that it is forbidden and seek help in hopes that Allah will guide them. Someone can still be a Muslim and be a homosexual, yes it is in fact a major sin and that is between them and God, although if they believe in Allah and Allah only, that still makes them a Muslim. Many Muslims sin, and yes others have more weight than others, but again we can let God judge that. So in conclusion if a Muslim person does feel that homosexuality is right for them, than that is simply their own decision and between them and God.
It must be extremely difficult for homosexuals to follow a religion that tells them that they should be stoned to death for living a certain lifestyle. I think that Christianity was very similar to the strictness towards homosexuals, "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads"(Leviticus, 20:13). However over time the majority of Christians have become more lenient about scripture because of the idea that forgiveness can easily be obtained by just repenting. However, there are still Christians that strictly follow scripture and are highly opposing of homosexuality.
ReplyDeleteI think that regardless of the sin, nobody should be stoned to death, even murderers. There have been some murderers who have “found god” after a long period of time where they have reflected on their actions and realized the wrong in them. I am not saying that murderers should not be punished for their crime, instead I just think that we humans do not have the required understanding and sense of justice to adequately judge another human being and that the judgement should be reserved for God alone. By ending a person’s life by stoning them to death, it robs that person of the chance to redeem them self.
Also, nobody is perfect and we all have our sins and I find it hypocritical how we judge others for their sins while not taking responsibility for our own. In the gospel of John (8:1-11), a woman is accused of adultery and was allegedly caught in the act, and as a result the people wanted to stone her to death in which Jesus replied "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her" (John 8:7). I think this was the turning point where the majority of Christians no longer agreed with stoning a person to death.
Wow! It's getting interesting on this thread. Thank you all for articulating your thoughts in a respectful manner. Obviously the documentary is controversial and we aren't all going to agree on the cause of homosexuality. That's okay. The important thing is to be open to the thoughts and opinions of others - to learn about the issue from another perspective.
ReplyDeleteI found the individual in the film to be very courageous and brave. It must be very difficult to follow a religion which condemns him to death. Many religions discriminate against homosexuals. This leads me to question the credibility of religion. Religions should be accepting of everyone.
ReplyDeleteSo Anber.. Firstly, i apologize because i can't claim to know anything about Islam. But Sadaf told me a story that is part of the Muslim religion; which I'd like to use as part of my argument.
ReplyDeleteShe told the story like this:
Once, there was a woman who went to the Prophet and said "i had sex before marriage, i should be stoned to death" and the Prophet told her that she was not ready for it yet, and she should wait till she gives birth to the unborn child. After that, she went back to him and said "stone me to death now", to which he replied that it was not the right time yet, because she had to bring up the child and care for him/her. The woman then got married, brought up her children and cared for her family well. She then returned to the Prophet and said that she had now accepted her fate and was ready to be stoned to death. He told her that she was not going to be stoned to death, because she had been forgiven since she had redeemed herself through her good deeds in her life.
Again, I apologize if i made any mistakes or if i'm not supposed to be saying these things without having read them myself.
From my knowledge, the Prophet was a messenger of Allah. So if the Prophet himself forgave a woman for her sins because Allah granted it, I do not get how modern muslims can still say that homosexuals should be condemned to death. Okay, it is a sin according to the Quran, but what if the homosexual individual is a person of such pure faith and heart that he gains redemption and Allah himself forgives him/her? Then haven't the people who condemned the individual and treated them badly committed a sin themselves?
@ Sundas... you said in your last line "if a Muslim person does feel that homosexuality is right for them, than that is simply their own decision and between them and God." I agree with the second part, clearly anything is between the individual and God, other people should have no say in the matter. The first part though I'd disagree with, because nobody feels that 'homosexuality is right for them'! That is how they ARE. Its a part of them! Okay, maybe they can pray and follow Allah and he will guide them to the 'right' path of being heterosexual, but who are other people to claim the right to punish them and kick them out of society?
Okay, i have to go, i'll continue this if i get home before 5 :D
Okay.. I'm back! With 28 minutes to go.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, i just re-read my last post, and I apologize for the nasty grammar and senseless sentences because I was typing in a real hurry!
I have a lot more to say and points that I did not address yet, but if I started with those I would repeat myself, since I think I've said the gist of what is on my mind.
But after learning a lot about the religion of Islam and Christianity, here's my final view on the subject:
Religion is a way of life that allows an individual to be part of a community, to believe in something bigger than themselves and to give them guidelines to live by so that they do not go astray. One's sexual orientation cannot be changed by force; you might succeed, but only in oppressing the person's true feelings. What kind of a life is that, living in the shadow of fear and embarassment?
I'm not religious by any means, but I do respect religion because my family believes in God. If religion is a positive thing, then I believe it should keep its doors open to believers, the faithful, and the good. Making a person feel shameful and unworthy because of their individuality is not what religion is meant to do.